College Application Workshop: Extracurricular Activities and Your Application ReBroadcast

All right, well welcome everyone. My name is Chris Perkins and we're excited to have you here for our second installment of the College Application Workshop series here. As we approach August 1st and when the application for another name becomes available, Shamar and I are here to talk about extracurriculars. And we're again excited to have you joining us, and we hope to have some some great information to share with all of you.

Here this afternoon.

Before we do that, though, just a little introduction for the two of us Shamar. If you wouldn't mind starting then I'll follow you. Yeah for sure. Thanks, Chris. So hi everyone, my name is Shamar cousin. I'm originally from Philadelphia, PA, but now South Bend IN is my home. I work as an admissions counselor here at the University of Notre Dame. I also went to Notre Dame as an undergraduate where I am a proud member of the class of 2021, and I actually was just talking to one of my colleagues about this.

Some fun facts and one fun fact about me is that there is a 22 1/2 year age gap between myself and my youngest civil. That's that's a great fact. That's great. I don't think I could do that, so you learn something new about your colleagues every day, and I again everyone. As I said, Chris Perkins. I'm one of the senior associate directors and the Office of Undergraduate Admissions here at entertain. I'm a proud 2008 graduate from the university I've been working at admissions here at Notre Dame since 2009.

And I also received a Bachelor of Arts degree in history with a concentration in American history and kind of a fun fact for me. I'm actually originally from a small rural area in central Illinois. Actually grew up on a farm in between Chicago, IL and St. Louis, MO. So again, welcome and we're excited to have you join us here. And before we move on to the next slide. I just also wanted to reiterate the importance of how exciting of a time this is. No doubt, for all of you as you kind of are gearing up for.

Starting your senior year of high school, it could be a very daunting and challenging time of your life as well too. We understand that it wasn't too long ago that Shamar and myself we were rising seniors in high school as well to. So we just want to remind you that there are a lot of people here to walk through the journey with you and to know that you have a lot of great resources available to you as well. And hopefully attending a virtual program like this today will will assist you.

And then other ways to kind of interact with our office and with other admissions offices for that matter at other universities as well too.

All right, so to get us started here just to kind of give you an idea of what we hope to to accomplish this afternoon with all of you will first begin just by walking through kind of an introduction to extracurricular involvement and activities. What that may look like. We'll have some advice for the application as well too, and I think there are a lot of kind of common misconceptions out there that run rampant on social media or just from student to student in their interactions so.

Kind of answering some of those common misconceptions and and putting all of you at ease as well to, and we'll hopefully have some time for some Q&A as well. So to field some questions that that have come in. So again, that's kind of what we're expecting to to to to cover here this afternoon with all of you so Shamar if you wouldn't mind getting us started with a what are extracurricular activities and how we approach them? Yeah for sure. Thanks Chris. So as you can see, this entire session is about.

Extracurricular activities and your application. So maybe it doesn't make sense for us to get started on what exactly an extracurricular activity is, so an extracurricular activity is any club activity or opportunity that you pursue outside of the classroom. So usually people tend to jump immediately to things that you're doing within your school. Like maybe you are in the choir or in the theater, or playing a sports, but it is important to note that these extracurricular activities.

Really, anything that you're doing. It can take place in your school. It can be in your neighborhood. They can be in your community, or literally anywhere else. One applicant that I actually remember from last year cycle I believe talked about in her extracurricular activity section that she was a proud fish mom and that she spent a lot of time actually like researching different like fish species and like seeing what types of foods they needed to eat and which types of fish could live together and.

That particular tank and then would go out and buy these fish and you know, create a her own mini aquarium in her own house. So that is just a bit of a more unique, maybe a more niche activity extracurricular activity, but it is important to note that, and I think that just is a good summation of your activities. Really can be anything that you're doing outside of classroom. Once again, that's a bit more unique, but I'll pass it on to Chris talk about some of the more they become in activities that we see in those.

Yeah, and all the institution Mara. I've been in the admissions office here in Britain since 2009 as I shared, I don't think I've ever seen that type of unique activity, so that's a good example to to use. You know, moving on some some more kind of common activities that we do typically see. As you probably guess, your yourself as well to, you know, as you mentioned, you know anything else with your school. It could be clubs, organizations, such as You Know Theater or Drama. It could be student.

Government, it could be marching band, it could be some special interest club organization through your school as well too so that that really is kind of a larger umbrella that encompasses a wide variety of activities that we could potentially see. It could also be an athletic group or club, either through your school, maybe varsity or junior varsity. It could also be a rec sports league. It could be, you know, league through one church or a community based organization that they're part of mean there are a lot of great ways to get involved athletically and we see.

Kind of anything and everything in regards to athletics on a student's activity list. It could also be a service just being who we are entertaining, and as many of you may know, really integral part of our mission emitter name is being a powerful force for good in the world. Father Soren, our founder in 1842. That was his hope at that time, and we're proud to continue that long tradition here 180 years later, so that service component and mission.

This is definitely a a great tentative what separates today from a lot of other great universities in our opinion, so we naturally see due to that mission a lot of students who also kind of shared that that interest in service. So we see service opportunities through ones community or maybe through their school creating service organizations or initiatives and staying committed to that as time goes on as well. To really leaving a lasting imprint and making a positive impact.

And those around them, so that could be also included on activities list. You know it's significant family responsibilities. And again, what do you do outside of classroom time with your family and those responsibilities associated with family? Always highlight that information as well too, because they're only 24 hours in a day and those type of commitments again, they take up your your time. So definitely share that information with us. It could be anything from maybe supporting or helping younger siblings at home. Maybe it could.

Also involve helping elderly grandparents with daily tasks as well too. So again, please be sure to share that type of background if necessary, and then finally the last two here on this slide work experience and leadership experience, you know work experience I think says a lot about one's commitment and dedication, and it could be anything from a simple part time job to do over the summer for a few months. Or maybe during the fall or the spring, or throughout the entire year as well while you're also.

Probably everything else that's going on in your life, just being a high school student. So so that's great to highlight and then last but not least, that leadership experience and that's either formal leadership, or it could be potentially informal leadership. Again, that initial initiative that drive, how do you show leadership? Again, it doesn't necessarily have to be in those more formal positions, so so these are just kind of some common activities that we oftentimes see during our evaluation process.

And those are, you know, some of the common activities. Now you might be asking why does any of this matter? Why do I need to have extracurriculars on my application? And what about just my grades and my scores and whatnot and extracurricular activities really do matter because Notre Dame students and really college students in general not only work really hard, but they play hard as well. So Notre Dame and college, once again in general, is not easy by any means as to Notre Dame grads. Here it is.

That easy you are going to work really hard. It is a challenging institution here, but regardless of that of the academic component here at Notre Dame College isn't just about going to class and doing homework and research projects and stuff. College of Big Sports and colleges. Having fun and not only just having fun but exploring different like creative or artistic or recreational avenues like you said, maybe you're playing sports in high school, so it's a big time to.

Explore those different avenues you can take advantage of all those different clubs. Maybe you have clubs in your high school. Trust me, we'll have even more clubs here in college, so you can take advantage of those different clubs. Student based organizations, all of those things you can learn how to play a new instrument, but you didn't play any musical instruments in high school and you want to pick up something like that in college. You can join an intermural sports team. You can direct a play a college. Students are doing a lot of different things here and.

Really, colleges, including Notre Dame, are looking for students who will thrive in a place like this where they're not just in the library all day, but you're taking advantage of all the different resources that we have here. We want students who are well-rounded, and those extra curricular activities really do show your well, roundedness as a student, not just you know that well, roundedness, but as you can see on our list here, and also can indicate your enthusiasm for learning new skills like learning to play a new instrument, different leadership.

Opportunities like Chris just mentioned in our last slide and your ability to work together work as part of a team which is also very important in college. Trust me, you will be learning a lot of new things that might not be an instrument, but you'll be learning a lot in the bathroom and just things like this. Show your capacity and your potential as a student to thrive your end of day and to pick up new skills to work together as a team, especially as school like Notre Dame, where I think we both could agree that it is a very collaborative student body here that students are definitely working together.

And that is an ability that you will have your ability to be able to collaborate, not just in the classroom, but out of the classroom as well. And your extracurricular activities are just more time where you get to, you know, display those different attributes that you might be able to display activity, and I think the last time I checked you mark, we have over 500 different student clubs organizations to choose from, so we'll keep you busy. It's not just a world class education that you receiving it, or yes, you are challenged. You get a great degree after your time and entertaining, but also.

We hope that you'll leave Notre Dame a better place, not only outside of the classroom, but also inside the classroom, and vice versa. So it's all important academically and non academically for you're experiencing your name, so that's why, as Shamar was saying, that activities list gives us a sense of what your passions are and what you could ultimately bring to a school like University of Notre Dame, and would you ultimately leave Notre Dame a better place after your time here? So, so again, tell us those passions what define what defines who you are.

What makes you you and you can get that across to us by that activities list. Moving on some advice just in general, as you kind of think about preparing for that application and again, August 1st is when application will become available. A little piece of homework advice from Shamar and myself to all of you. You may want to sit down and compose a one to two page resume to really sit down and to create.

Uh, this formal document and ask yourself and maybe even others in your life. You're a mentor, maybe? Or maybe an advisor. Or maybe a family member. Or a best friend, or all the above. Ask yourself and others. What have I been doing and also any honors, any awards that you've received, leadership, experience and also when have you been doing those things? The number of hours per week potentially? Or what years in high school you were involved in?

And as time goes on, you can update that document as you get into your senior year. I think it'll do a number of different things. Two things that I can think of, especially off the top of my head. One is, it will save you time when you actually sit down to fill the application application. It takes some time to to to fill it out and to to capture everything that it asked for. So if you already have that prepared document in front of you again, it'll just make that part of the application go by a little bit more quickly. Secondly, it could potentially show you some.

Areas of growth, maybe some areas that are maybe a little bit weaker that you would like to work on improving here in the coming weeks and months and that actually is a great segue into the application deadlines themselves. We have, as you may know, two deadlines. One is known as restrictive early action that is November 1st, but like it was very first, I would say roughly from one year to the next. Historically about one out of three students traditionally apply early, while two out of three.

Traditionally, we'll wait and apply with January 1st, and we always encourage students no matter what our general rule of thumb and advice is, apply whenever you literally cannot do anything else. This is it. This is the best my application could possibly be academically and non academically, and having that resume as you approach August 1 could potentially inform you areas that you again want to focus your attention on strengthening and then also may lead you towards one application.

Versus the another in terms of the deadline. So again, just a general piece of advice from us to all of you in regards to having that resume. I think it'll it'll be a great great resource for you, including activities that you're ultimately passionate about, and that could also include hobbies that you may potentially feel as though it's a small part of who you are, but really based upon the hobby and you know the meaningful impact and involvement that you've had, that is even worth sharing.

Winter activities list so it doesn't have to be something that you're doing 10 hours a week for four years in a row. It could be some of those smaller parts of of your unique background as well.

Shamar

yes and just adding some more advice here. I think one of the most important pieces of advice that we could give you is to be genuine. We've talked about this multiple times here. This whole application process really is about us learning you who you are, what you're passionate about, what really drives you, what motivates you, and really, that should be what you're getting across in your activity section. Being able to be your true self on that same note, you should really list your activities.

In order of importance to you, not what you think us as admissions counselors want to see? Yeah, we want to see as Chris you mentioned before, what you are passionate about. So maybe it is a hobby that you're doing. Maybe it is raising fish. Being a fish mom, and that's your number one thing. That's the first thing that you're going to put on your list. We want to see what really drives you, what makes you tick, what you're passionate about, not what you think we want to see on your application.

Also, in terms of actually writing down the things in your activity section, it's important to note that you should expect some things that might not be common knowledge. So although we are very knowledgeable and decide, yeah, we know you're always learning exactly every day you learn something new. We might not know exactly what that club is at your school. Maybe it's a club that is unique specifically to your school or an organization that's unique to your community, like Spirit Squad, for example, you might not know what that is, so give us a brief.

What the description about what Spirit Squad is, what your role in Spirit Squad is. Just tell us about a bit about what it is that you're doing, so we have more context about exactly what you're doing outside of the classroom.

Also know that we are two beings on this side. I know we talked a bit about like misconceptions and there's always like this mysterious aspect about admissions like what's going on over there. They have robots reading all these applications. We are humans and we do understand community disruption, especially during the ongoing pandemic. That seems like it's been going on for quite some time now, so we do understand that maybe there were some disruptions. Maybe you were going to play baseball.

And your season got cancelled because of COVID or you're going to go on any service trip or you're gonna tutor after school. Those things got cancelled due to COVID. Or maybe you didn't want to do these activities because of health reasons. You have someone in your family who was immunocap. Or maybe you yourself are immunocompromised and you couldn't quite go out and do all the activities that you would love to do that you are passionate about. Those are all things that we do want to see. Let us know that this all about what it is that you're doing outside of the classroom and it's all about.

Context here everyone is ****. Everyone's situation is unique, so definitely let us know and that additional information section about the impact that COVID or any other disruption in your life could possibly have. Also important to note in those information sections on question that we do usually get is I filled up the entire activity section. I have a few more things that need to talk about. Where can I put this stuff first that you can put that stuff in the additional information section, but it's also important to note that a lot of that stuff can come across.

And different by different means so we can see different activities you're doing. Maybe in your recommendation letter from your counselors or from your teachers. You can incorporate some of your activities and your essays, those personal statements or Notre Dame supplemental essays. There will be 2 supplemental essays for your Notre Dame application, so you can incorporate some of those activities in those sections. But there are different avenues that you can use to really let us know what it is that you're doing outside of the classroom. If you do happen to fill up that entire activity section.

Spot, which does happen a lot, doesn't are doing a lot of different activities outside of the classroom and their community. So if you do fill up that spot, don't worry. Don't have to stress about it. Additional information recognition letters, and those supplemental essays and the personal statement as well can be perfect spots for you to go into detail about those other activities. And also I, I will just add to that there is a way to also upload additional information directly through your online student portal, so when you apply Twitter, you're given access to a portal.

You can actually add new information there as well to if applicable and if necessary, after you click submit on the application as well too. So I just wanted to offer that to to keep in mind this next slide just to give you an idea that this kind of a sample of how it may ultimately look in terms of an activities list once it gets to Shamar or myself or one of our colleagues. And I think these four examples are are good to kind of. Keep in mind the 1st 3.

Really are are some areas that that may not be the best examples to use in terms of your final activities list and we'll talk about that here in a second. In my opinion. I think the last example really kind of touches upon a number of things and really is the best at least of of the four represented on on on this slide. My general rule of thumb personally, and this is what I oftentimes find myself recommending to students as they're kind of trying to weigh. Like how do I approach the activities list and what do I put on?

On this list is to ask yourself three general questions. One is is this a passion of mine or has it been a meaningful experience for me and and ask yourself that question. Secondly, does this activity demonstrate something unique about myself and who I am and how I want to portray myself to others? And finally, am I accurately describing my role, what the activity and?

Tails and or my time commitment to this activity and if you say yes to each one of those questions, you're kind of checking out in your mind. In my opinion, I would presume Shamar would agree with me that that means you're on the right track. That is an activity that you should definitely have on that list and you're checking off the key components when you're describing it and capturing the the type of commitment that has been for you. That being said, for NHS for that first example here on this slide.

National society you know. First off, that is a great honor to be inducted into the National Honor Society. But in terms of our process, that is also a pretty common activity that students would ultimately list. One question that I would have when I would see if it is listed on a student's activities list and it's listed like this with a leader position. I personally don't know if that means they're seeing themselves as a leader. Kind of an unofficial leader in some type of.

As the OR is this a more formal kind of elected leadership position? So that's kind of a question for me. If I saw it displayed as it appears on on on this list in front of you. Also, 15 hours per week, 52 weeks per year for two full years, sophomore year and and junior year, that seems like a high number of of hours and I would probably not expect to see that number of hours associated with something like National Honor Society and.

My baby mistaken that if if it is accurate, I would probably recommend providing some additional information, maybe in a letter of recommendation or a short answer response. The additional information section that Shamar had mentioned as well to to kind of tease that out. Why 15 hours a week? Again, that seems pretty inflated in my opinion. The Wildcat action team that may be a worthwhile activity, it looks as it appears as though in this example it's during senior year.

Five hours a week for a good chunk of the year, but there's not much of a description that is provided, so we don't really know exactly what it is installing, so I know you are limited to the number of words or characters in terms of your description, but kind of make sure that it is capturing as best as it can. What is encompassed by your involvement with that organization or activity. The third example, reading that's a pretty common activity and and experience for for.

A lot of people, and saying that it's kind of your your research experience or you know, saying 2 hours a week throughout the year, freshman year through senior year. Personally, I'm I'm not seeing added value to once application by mentioning something like a common activity such as meeting that final example of student government homecoming committee chairperson.

A great example of providing a a short but detailed explanation of what is involved. Also it is a a larger commitment, several hours a week for at least three months of the year during junior and senior year. That, in my opinion, really is a a great example of of something that we would say that would stand out on activities list. So we wanted to just provide you with a glimpse of how it may ultimately appear on our end and some examples of maybe what what to do and what not to do.

When it comes down to to your activities list.

For sure, and now we just wanted to go through a few common misconceptions about the extracurricular activities section when it comes to applying to colleges, one of which is that you need to do service. I know Chris, you mentioned before that your name. We're looking for students who are forces for good. But firstly you can be a force for good. You can show that you are a good human being with a strong sense of morals by doing things that are not service related. Not everything has to be related to service and and more general there's never just one.

That required activity that you need to be able to be admitted at Notre Dame. There's no you know. This process isn't black and white. There's no right or wrong answers necessarily, so there's no one activity that you're gonna put there. And if you don't have it, that means you're not getting admitted to Notre Dame, so you don't need to do any specific activity. We just want to see you once again what you are passionate about. Let us know. Going back to being genuine, being passionate, what it is that drives you, what it is that you're doing.

The classroom, so no need to do just one specific thing in terms of the extracurricular activity section. Next one here is that quantity is more important than level of involvement. Once again, that is not necessarily true. We mentioned before. You might be someone that has an entire the entire extracurricular activity section filled out front to back, and you have the additional information and maybe some more activities listed in your letters of recommendation or your short answer prompts.

But that does not mean that your extracurricular activity section is, you know, superior to someone who has a few activities that they're really involved in. Maybe you actually are involved with something for 15 hours a week might not be National Honor Society or whatever. Yeah, maybe we are mistaken and we are going for 15 hours a week with National Honor Society, but if you are someone who is doing activities for 10 plus hours a week, it is not realistic to expect that.

All extracurricular activity section page to be filled out front to back with all activities that are in 10 plus hours. If you're very involved. Very committed, very passionate about something that is, you know, no fault of your own. You are not going to be at a disadvantage for not having more extracurricular activities listed. I also think it's important to note that we usually can tell we like we said before, we know a few things on this side of things. We usually can tell if a student is just listing activities to like pad their resume.

They just think that OK admissions getting to this Third Point here, admissions is gonna think it's really impressive if I do this this, this, and this, so I'm gonna sign up for all of these different things. I'm not really doing too much at any of the things that I can put all of them on my resume. We usually can tell when a student is doing that. We like to see students pursuing things that they are passionate about, not just doing things to kind of check a box on their application checklist here.

Next we kind of already touched on as well. Colleges only know my activities because of the activity section. Once again, not true. This is a holistic review process. We are looking at everything in your application. We're saying what you're doing outside of the classroom, not just through the extracurricular activity section. But once again, recommendation letters, essays, additional information section. We're seeing what you're doing from your entire application, and we are reading your entire application when you are picking up bits and pieces here. And we're not just getting to the extracurricular activity.

And saying well.

They didn't listen up here, so time to move on to the next applicant or anything like that. We're seeing your entire application and this last one that there is a perfect formula for how many activities that you should pursue. That is not the case at all. We are really looking at your application in the context of you and your school and your community. We do know that a lot of schools are different. Maybe you go to a high school where there are 800 people in your class and it's really, really hard to get a leadership position.

So maybe we see that you are secretary of student councils like WOW, that is pretty impressive for a school that has 800 kids. Or maybe we you go to a school that might have a few less resources and maybe your school only has three or four clubs, so you're only in three or four clubs. But we see that you are taking advantage of all the things, all the opportunities that are there for you. So maybe your extracurricular activity section is a little smaller just because you're from a place. If you were growing up.

On the farm, and they're very many. If so, great yeah, which is my background? Absolutely, place the group, but maybe there just weren't that many resources available and not too many clubs or different activities that you can participate in. So we really are looking at the context of where you're coming from. If you're living in a big city and you have a really long commute to and from school, there's a lot of traffic. It takes you an hour to get to school an hour to get home, so there's already 2 hours out of your day that are taking away from things that you could be doing outside of the classroom.

So really, it is important to put all that stuff in the application for us to see and once again, very human process. On this end we are taking all these things into account when we're looking at your extracurricular activities. Fantastic thanks to Mark and that kind of wraps up our formal presentation, but we would love to to field some questions from from all of you and kind of answer some of the questions that may still be remaining, so we'll spend a few minutes to do that before we get wrapped up here.

This afternoon, so I'm seeing a lot of questions coming in here and kind of to kick us off. Shamar if you wouldn't mind kind of tackling this first question. Is there any such thing as too many activities so I know we've kind of talked about a little bit, but can you shed a little bit more light on on how you would answer that question please? Yes for sure, and that is a fantastic question so thank you for asking that. Is there such thing as too many activities? No, there really isn't necessarily too many activities, but once again.

We really just want to see you doing things that you are passionate about, like be your genuine true self and it usually is pretty easy to tell when a student is passionate about something versus when they are just putting something there to make their resume look better. So maybe you are passionate about 15 different activities and you have all these different activities listed going through. You have strong descriptions and you're clearly very committed and involved in all those different activities. That is fantastic and in that case nothing wrong with having that many.

But if you were just doing things, you have 15 activities and there's one that you did just yourself, more year one you did for two hours in your senior year, one you did over spring break your junior year, and it's clear that maybe you're not too committed to these activities. You might have been just checking boxes. In that case, I think we'd much rather see someone who is committed and involved in their activities versus someone best 100 things listed on their activity speech. Yeah, that's a great way to put it. Shamar. Thanks for adding that insight. Another question.

That that we've gotten here. What is the best order of my extracurricular activities? Those that are most recent, or those that are most impressive and we get that question quite quite a bit. At least I do, and I'm guessing you do tomorrow as well too, so you know. I think there's no clear cut answer. Uh, really, I think it's really personal preference. That being said, more often than not, I would say most students typically kind of gravitate towards the most impressive in their opinion. Kind of starting.

On on that side of of the house and then kind of working down from there. But there again, other students I've seen in the past where they chose to take a different approach and kind of did the most recent activities during senior year, maybe junior year and kind of work down from there. So at the end of the day, Shamar myself, our colleagues, we're not going to be spending a time as we're evaluating an application trying to think of why.

Did the student kind of kick off their activities list with this activity versus another activity? We're going to be looking at all the information on activities list. We don't have necessarily a certain preference in terms of order or how it may appear, just as long as the information is accurate. It's describing what is entailed and it's really encompassing. Again, what's most meaningful to you and what your passions are and what you could potentially bring to to the university returning. So again, there's no really little.

We're kind of the answer to that question, but hopefully that helps all of you as well, right? I will add though, in terms of recency and your activities, you know we don't really need to be seeing all the activities you were doing in 6th grade or fifth grade. True, yeah. Unless you know and your additional information section, you have a very great explanation about maybe why you have a lot of activities from middle school and not from high school, but really want to see in terms of like high school versus middle school, what you're doing.

Most recently updated your resume. We don't necessarily need to see things pre high school on that activities list. Great point. Thanks Shamar fraud and that another topic that is appearing in some some questions that we're receiving. How do I address what's the best way to to provide additional context if I cannot do an activity or you know, for instance, I've seen several students here asking about you know, part time jobs and.

Does not having the opportunity to do additional extracurricular activities because of those commitments Shamar? Do you have any advice in terms of how to approach that? Again, I think this goes back to the idea of context as well too. So do you have any insights or advice there for sure? And I think once again goes back to context and that every situation is unique. Also in terms of like actually listing those things as we showed in our example, when you're writing now, maybe you're printing your part time job on your activities list. You can also put.

How many hours a week you're working? How many weeks a year you're working? So we see you're working a part time job. We're working 25 hours a week, 52 weeks a year. Maybe we don't really expect.

To see maybe the most full list of extractive extracurricular activities in that case because you're dedicating so much time for this part time job. But really, it's all about you explaining to us so in those descriptions on this special curricular activities and and those like additional information spaces. Just saying, hey, I'm working this part time job. This is maybe why I couldn't do this, or I plan to do this, but it was cancelled because of the pandemic, and once again we're not just.

In your activities through extracurricular activities section but and those letters of recommendation, maybe your counselor is going to mention that you are working a part time job or you have all these things going on after school that are taking away from opportunities to do other things. Or maybe you want to mention it in your short essay prompts or in your college application essay as well. Just letting us know what it is that you're doing outside of the classroom. Great thanks for sharing that. And then one last question that I'm seeing here.

As well too, before we wrap up things, common question that that we're seeing, and then also oftentimes we we received during our information sessions or here on campus with visitors. What do I do about pre college programs? I potentially participate in a pre college program as a high school student through Notre Dame's Pre College office. Or maybe it's at another university. Do I highlight that on the application? If so, where does that give me an extra leg up as well, and that's a great question.

A lot of great questions really involving pre college and 1st off pre college programs are fantastic opportunities just to get a sense of what college life is like in a lot of respects we have students who do pre college through their name or as I said do other universities. If it's been a meaningful experience for you and it can kind of impacted your life and how you approach your involvement in high school and what you'll bring to a university setting then fantastic. Please be sure to share that.

Information on the activities list and and we do see that I wouldn't necessarily though that being said, say that it would give you the extra leg up, so to speak, because again, we're looking holistically at a lot of different information during our evaluation process, and some students just don't naturally know about those pre college opportunities or they don't have the ability either time wise or financially to attend something like that. So again, we have to take that into consideration as well too. So again, that that's.

That's kind of a common topic that comes up. Please share that information with us, but again, we're looking at a lot of great information on that application during our evaluation process. So unfortunately we have run out of time. We appreciate everyone's enthusiasm, and in your time joining us here this afternoon, just as a reminder, we do have two other great Application Workshop episodes coming up. We have the understanding of college essay tomorrow on Wednesday.

At 4:00 o'clock Eastern Time, and then the college application and holistic review being on Thursday, July 28th, we hope this has been a robust conversation and a great opportunity for you to get a little bit more insights from our point of view and some advice from us. And as we mentioned, we're here to walk through this journey with you. Please come and do additional virtual opportunities through us or in person information sessions. We always love campus visitors here on campus as well and.

Finally, getting involved on social media. We have a lot of great platforms to get involved, to hear from current students and their perspectives. To give you a little taste of their experience compared to alums like ourselves and work in our biased opinions as well too. So. But again, we appreciate your time and good luck to all of you. And as we always say here, we are being go Irish.